Guiding Life and Building Relationships with Clients

Tom:  So, I'd like to talk a little bit about guiding and just some stuff that as a senior guide that you might pass on to younger guides… One of your testimonials is this guy. He's been to four countries with you and has done all this stuff, and I would assume someone like that is pretty solid in the mountains by now. And so, what is it that someone like that is getting out of hiring a guide?

Christian:  It ends up being a lot of different things. Richard and I have formed a really strong relationship. He's one of my very closest friends now. You know, we have a really great time together, and I think that, overall, is one of the best things is you build a relationship with somebody, and you get to go and do these amazing things with someone that you enjoy spending time with.

So, I think that's perhaps the best thing about it. The other reason, for people who climb a lot and want to go do stuff, you know, a lot of folks don't have a lot of time. Unfortunately in the U.S., if you're working for a large corporation, you get two weeks off a year for vacation, and that's really not enough time. And you're probably working 60 hours a week, and so the time it takes to research and organize a trip is difficult.

So, that's one of the services that I offer in my business is when someone signs up for a custom trip with me, everything is taken care of. They show up. I pick them up. We go and have a great time. Everything's included. They don't have to think a lot about where we're going next, what we're going to be doing. We can also keep it flexible, and, you know, take opportunities as they arise. So, I think that's a big part of it is, just the fact that you can just show up and go and not have to worry about the details and just relax.

The other thing is, especially higher-end climbers who might do quite a bit on their own, you know, going with a professional, you get to do stuff that perhaps you wouldn't go do on your own. You know, you might be a really good climber, but there are some routes or some peaks that you really have an eye on, and you just don't feel confident enough to go and do it on your own or with a partner. So, having that flexibility of saying, "OK, all right, Christian, we want to go do the north face of the Eiger, something I've always dreamed of." You know, you hire somebody with the skill to be able to do that successfully. So, I think that's a really important thing.

And then, lastly I would say would just… well, there's more. This wouldn't be lastly – there's lots [laughs].

Tom:  [laughs]

Christian:  But, you know, one of the things that I pride myself on and Exum… I think has been a very long tradition at Exum, but at Aerial Boundaries we do as well, and that's every guiding assignment, every time we go out, it's an opportunity to teach skills.

Tom:  I'm sorry, I don't want to interrupt you, but I was actually going to ask you about that…. I wondered how much skills instruction you do in your guiding. [29:41]

Christian:  Well, I do a lot. I do a lot of skills instruction. You know, one, it doesn't take a whole lot of skill on my part to just say, "All right. Here." Tie you in, and I'll go take you up to Grand Teton.

Tom:  Right.

Christian:  You know, I hardly have to do anything. I can coach a few times, but it's not that challenging for me, and it wouldn't be that fun for my client. So, I think skills training is super important. One of my most memorable guiding moments was when I was living in Berkeley and working at City Rock, the climbing gym, the old climbing gym there. I taught this big wall course. And so, I taught this like month-long big wall course, where we taught everybody how to haul, taught people how to aid climb, taught them how to jumar at pendulums, and all these different things — basically give them all the tools to go and climb a big wall on their own.

I was sitting in Camp Curry one day having a pizza, and two of my students from there saw me, walked up to me, and they had these huge grins on their faces, and they had just done the South Face of Washington Column on their own, and they were so pumped. I mean, the look in their eyes and on their faces, I mean, that was it for me. It was like, "Wow, this it. This is what I want to do," because they had soooo much fun.

So, I think teaching those skills is super important. I want people to be able to go out and have adventures on their own and gain their own experiences. So for me, guiding is much more than just taking people climbing. It's about sharing mountain experiences with them. It's about teaching them stuff that they can go… you know, maybe they want to take their kids out climbing on some easier stuff. If I can give them tools to go do that, to be able to enjoy that with their kids, awesome. So, teaching is a huge part of what we do. It's a huge… I think it's a really important thing for all guides to get really good at, whether they're skiing, or rock climbing, or alpine climbing, whatever. [32:00]

Tom:  I think that's the most fun. You know, I've taught of course history and paleography at university, and I've taught skiing to three-year-olds, and I got to say that when you teach somebody a new skill, a new physical skill that they have fun with...it's like, I don't know...the feedback that you get from it is some of the best you get from anything you can do.

Christian:  Yeah. It's magical [laughs]. You change somebody's life when you teach them a new skill like that.

Delivering the Goods for Clients: the Key to Building a Guiding Business

Tom:  How 'bout a wrap up with a couple of things that you could pass on to other guides, especially ski guides, about kind of the business end. In other words, not the accounting but I mean, you know what I mean. How you get clients, keep clients, how you make them happy. What you want do if you're going to build a life as a guide in the mountains.

Christian:  The most important things, business wise, if you want to continue to do this is building really strong relationships with your clients. And that comes from having good teaching skills. So someone feels like every time that they go out with you, they're going to learn something and have a great time. I think that's really important and that's how I've built my business over the years is every time I start my day — and you know, guiding like everything else, it's a job.

I mean, we get to go skiing, we get to go climb, we get to be outside and have a great time, do the things we love, but it's still...there still are days where it feels like a job. And you got to get up and "Uhh. God. It's really cold outside and I've got to put my boots on and they're not totally dry from yesterday and…" But I think setting your intention for the day is super important. So, you know, when I leave the house and I'm driving there, I try and think about, "Okay. What do I really want to accomplish with these folks today? What's the goal? What do they want to get out of the day and how can I make that possible for them?" And so when I show up to work, my whole intention is to give them all I have for that amount of time that I have them.

Tom:  For your cilents, it's not something they do every day. This is maybe their most special day of the year and you kind of got to keep that in mind when you're...when you show up.

Christian:  Absolutely. You know, they're putting their trust in you to teach them some stuff and to show them a really good time. There's always a continuum of the people who are really great skiers and just want to go and ski the goods. And then the people who haven't skied very much in the backcountry and your job is to show them some good stuff, teach them some new skills and get them to places they wouldn't go otherwise.

A really great week I had a couple of years ago was these two couples and they were really intermediate skiers. And they had never been skiing in the backcountry before. And they were from the East Coast, so they didn't ski powder very well. And we started out on the first day doing a really easy tour, climbing this small ridge and doing some really easy skiing. Not very steep but powder skiing. And I remember that first run. Every one of them fell at least ten times. I mean, we'd get two or three turns and Boom! [laughs] And by the end of the week, just from me being patient and coaching a lot, starting out doing really short runs. So I would ski down really only a couple of hundred vertical feet and have them ski to me and coach and coach and coach. By the end of the week we did a really significant ski run: this thing called Wimpy's Knob that required a 3000 foot climb and then an equal downhill and with some challenging skiing in a really spectacular place. And I think there were like three falls the whole day. And so the look on their faces at the end of the day when they're looking back up at this thing they had just skied was, "Oh my gosh! I can't believe we did that! That's so awesome!" And they just...you know, being patient and setting that intention every day. "All right. I'm going to give them everything I've got today. I'm going to take them to the next level today, whatever that is, and keep encouraging them." And those are folks that will come back and ski with me every year.

Tom:  Right. Yeah. Honestly for skiing, I'm more on the ski instruction end, but to take people out and just kind of run them through something that's just by rote, kind of the minimum or whatever. It just really isn't satisfying at all.

Christian:  No. That stuff is extremely rewarding to me when I can see them progress to such a large extent and watch them just have a great time.

Tom:  Yeah and it's great when you have people over a week or one year I had the same group four hours a week for the entire season. And that was amazing, both just to watch the progression and also in terms of the creativity you need to keep coming up with new things for them to do, you know?

What's a good takeaway for guides? Just bring it every day. Is that the most important thing?

Christian:  Bring it every day. And that could sound really daunting, "Bring it every day." Over the course of a long season where you are trying to bring it every day, mentally and physically that can be tough. But you know, I think what you said is really important. Keeping your creativity is important. Finding new things for you to do. Finding new ways to teach things so you keep it fresh for yourself all the time. Listen to your colleagues. What are they teaching? I learned some of my best skills from my fellow guides.

I think one of the things that we try to do a lot at Exum is co-guide. And I always learn something when I guide with somebody else. Everybody has a different way of teaching a particular skill or a different way of demonstrating something or a different progression. And so I'm constantly picking up different things and trying them out for myself. Trying to build my tool bag. And it does a couple things. One it makes me a more effective teacher because I've got all these different ways to teach people. But it also keeps things interesting for me. I don't do the same thing every time.

And for skiing, I think, we get into our little ruts. Like, "Man, I just love this one run so I'll just keep doing that one run." When you're trying to mix it up and choose different terrain and go to places that you haven't been to before I think that's a really great way to keep it interesting for yourself. And then, if you're going new places all the time, you're constantly building your repertoire of places you can go and places you can take people and depending on their skills and so forth. When the snow's bad here, "Oh. Well there was that one shot I did over there that, you know, it was pretty good. And I think in these conditions it would be great."

So, yeah. Bring it every day, but do it in a smart way. In a way that keeps it interesting for yourself and as much as you can involves your other colleagues. It's so much fun to work with other people.